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silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint off?

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silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint off?

Postby *jj* » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:47 pm

Hiya everyone.
I'm wondering if this makes sense to anyone.
I have found a lid of a very old 44 gallon drum and want to use it as a cover over my campfire.

I contain my camping / cooking fire in an old washing machine drum, for safety reasons, and having the lid to sit on top of it will enable me to keep it going for days at a time as well as make a cooking top to support frypans etc.

Now, given all that info, I should clarify that I had hoped to be able to occasionally cook directly on the cover (like we used plough shares) but given I have no idea what has been stored in this one, that's a no go.

However; a "bigger" issue has arisen.

The lid was nice and clean (which is why I chose it over the chook poo encrusted one) BUT on trying to clean it right back to a clean metal surface, I took a short cut and heated and scraped it over a good fire.

As I scraped, what had looked like a simple white, powdery paint (maybe limestone based?) with a sharp edged piece of wood, it gave-way-to or revealed a most interesting silver-papery looking residue which "folded" ahead of the scraping too and which remained silvery when cold but not flexible.

It was as if there had been two separate layers which did not show UNTIL the high temperature was reached.

It could be some kind of chemical reaction I suppose between the paint and the drum material, but I suspect it is the paint itself breaking down.

I've puzzled over it and suddenly think it might possibly have been a lead-based paint.

Would that explain what I saw?

I have since scrubbed it over great heat with a fine wire brush and it looks clean as anything could, but am still puzzled and suspicious that it could be unsafe forever.

Any clues appreciated.
Thanks
jj
*jj*
 
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:43 am

*jj* wrote:Hiya everyone.
I'm wondering if this makes sense to anyone.
I have found a lid of a very old 44 gallon drum and want to use it as a cover over my campfire.

....
I have since scrubbed it over great heat with a fine wire brush and it looks clean as anything could, but am still puzzled and suspicious that it could be unsafe forever.

Any clues appreciated.
Thanks
jj

The point is that these 44 gal drums were used for storage and transport of all manner of things. You don't know what was in it.

Some metallic oxides may appear as white powder. Tin Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Titanium Oxide, Magnesium Oxide are some. There may have been oxides in the paint.

Unsafe would probably be breathing the fumes that come off when it is hot. As a fire cover, you are hardly going to be leaning over it and breathing in while it is hot?
roughbarked
 
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:11 pm

Thank you rb; yes, you're right.

And thanks for the extra info; I'm afraid that stuff went right over my head in High School science.

I'd not want to be wafting anything toxic over any part of the land, but I figure I have done the main damage here now.

I certainly won't be doing any cooking on or over it while away, although IF at one of my bush retreats with no-one else around I might still put it to use trying to keep colas going o'night at least.

While there are risks I would take on my own account at this stage of my life, I'd not want to add to anyone else's hassles ... and given what is being written about Alzheimer and air pollution lately, the whole thing seems a little fool-hardly right now.
oh well; we will see how things work out.
We might not need it at all.

Thanks again.
j
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby moonmaid » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:12 am

hi jj

Haul out the chook poop encrusted lid :)
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:47 am

Yes jj. The use of it to cover the coals is probably fine as long as you or others aren't getting the smoke blowing in the door of the caravan say.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:32 pm

moonmaid wrote:hi jj

Haul out the chook poop encrusted lid :)
.

You're right ... it's the only sensible thng to do ... but ... I am guessing that what's under the chook poo is likely just as bad if not the same!

I wish it were one of the rusted clean old ones I have seen.

I'll keep my eyes open.
Thanks to you both

If you never hear from me again you'll know it's quick-acting something-or-other!
:)
*jj*
 
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:30 am

*jj* wrote:
moonmaid wrote:hi jj

Haul out the chook poop encrusted lid :)
.

You're right ... it's the only sensible thng to do ... but ... I am guessing that what's under the chook poo is likely just as bad if not the same!

I wish it were one of the rusted clean old ones I have seen.

I'll keep my eyes open.
Thanks to you both

If you never hear from me again you'll know it's quick-acting something-or-other!
:)


Old and rusted, sounds like both of us.. Go for it.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:34 am

Old 44's should have numbers/code stamped intoi the metal,. Look for this and try to reecognise it.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby Tejay » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:53 pm

*jj* The older 44 gal. drums were occasionally heavily galvanized. They had broad rims and prized by farmers for their durability... the lid you have may be a cut-off from such a 44. The galv coating was pretty thick and could flake back when the base metal was bent. I believe yours should not be used for cooking on until you can be sure it's safe.
HTH
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:19 am

Well, there you go; I never knew that.

Have never needed to I suppose.

I'm guessing that you mean the code would be on the drum itself?
I don't have the drum, only the lid, and I wouldn't assume that the lid WITH a drum these days was necessarily the one that it belonged to in the first place.
Thanks for that info though; it is the sort of thing to come
in handy.

This particular drum was only around because of a horse rider making a course for jumping practise, so it's one of many odds and ends in the corner of a paddock; goodness knows where they've come from.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:26 am

The number is usually stamped into the top of the drum. Is your piece the ytop or the bottom? Does it have a bung hole?
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:32 am

ahhh, no it doesn't.

So I'm guessing it must have held some kind of powder or something ... or at least NOT a flowable/spillable liquid.
It was manufactured to be prised off, has been used to store chook food recently, and the lid "profile" is such that it almost "snaps on" to the drum.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:41 am

*jj* wrote:ahhh, no it doesn't.

So I'm guessing it must have held some kind of powder or something ... or at least NOT a flowable/spillable liquid.
It was manufactured to be prised off, has been used to store chook food recently, and the lid "profile" is such that it almost "snaps on" to the drum.


Wonder how the chooks fared?
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:15 pm

Tejay wrote:*jj* The older 44 gal. drums were occasionally heavily galvanized. They had broad rims and prized by farmers for their durability... the lid you have may be a cut-off from such a 44. The galv coating was pretty thick and could flake back when the base metal was bent. I believe yours should not be used for cooking on until you can be sure it's safe.
HTH

Yes. However cooking on it wasn't the intended use. It would seem that jj was using it as a night cover to keep the coals dry and warm. The heat would be low.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:48 am

Morning Tejay ,found you!
Had forgotten about registering etc.

Thanks Helix; I'm out of forum practise.

This lid (who would have thought a convo about 44 gallon drum lids could go on and on:))
This lid is one that only ever "clippped" on.

I had hoped to be able to cook directly on it after cleaning (pumice / wire brush (and dettol etc :P))
but wouldn't dare now I know more.

rb is right, I wanted it to do double / triple duty ... as a stove top, so to speak, as a clean base to sit the fire holder on when packed in ALF and traveling, and (most usefully) to contain / cover the fire overnight or in rain.

Space is tight but I have it in ALF now and am finding I can work around it all quite well.
It will be trickier with the two of us.
:)
More Toddler Taming duty today (one 8 months and one 30, so off and into it)
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby *jj* » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:42 pm

And now, courtesy of an industrial type chemist, a definitive finding.
It IS (or was) almost certainly lead-based paint.
:(
So that sorts that.
There's none left on it now
Oh well.

Thanks to all for the working around the topic.
I learned new stuff ,anyhow, and that's always handy.
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Re: silvery metallic residue after burning /scraping paint o

Postby roughbarked » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:20 pm

Learning is always useful. :)
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